Author Topic: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers  (Read 3462 times)

Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« on: December 08, 2008, 01:08:41 AM »
        Hi - I'm Andy from Arizona, a hiker in the southwest part of the states.
 
        In my tireless efforts to pester hikers
        everywhere on the planet, I've discovered that
        13 of the North Island New Zealand Peak Bagging List
        summits are also a "big deal" in the prominence
        scheme of things
        http://peaklist.org/WWlists/oceania/New_Zealand_N_600m.html

        Also several of the "Possibles" meet this criteria.

        If you have hiked any five of the peaks listed
        below please contact me at oldadit@gmail.com
        This will let me start populating section 11) of
        http://oldadit.googlepages.com/FRL.txt

                many thanks - Andy


 600+ meter prominence peaks on
 North Island, New Zealand Peak Bagging List - Version 3 (31 August 2008)
 http://www.peakbagging.co.nz/index.php/North_Island


        Peak            Height  Prominence in meters
1       RUAPEHU         2797    2797
2       MOUNT TARANAKI  2518    2308
3       MITRE           1571    1331
4       HIKURANGI       1752    1182
5       NGAURUHOE       2287    977
6       MANGAWEKA       1733    849
9       PIRONGIA MTN    959     793
10      MANUOHA         1392    776
18      KAWEKA          1724    689
20      MOUNT TARAWERA  1111    664
24      KOHUKOHUNUI     688     651
25      MAUNGATAUTARI   797     647
28      KARIOI          756     609


  on http://www.peakbagging.co.nz/index.php/Possibles

8       MOUNT ROSS      981     795
11      TE RAUPUA       781     765
12      MOUNT MOEHAU    892     755
21      MAKORAKO        1727    660
29      RAETEA          744     602

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 04:35:47 AM »
Hi Andy,

The prominence thing is very interesting... and when we were trying to find a way to devise this list, using prominence or spire was one of our ideas.  In the end we settled on 'access', but I'm so glad you've made that list, as it will certainly help us find the most 'rewarding' peaks in NZ

There a lot on your list we haven't covered too...  so we'll be researching those ones too!

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 06:00:43 AM »
I don't have my maps handy but checking on the net, heights for Table Mountain are given as 832m or 846m on various sites.  Table mountain is pretty flat & tree covered, so picking the highest point would be a bit of guess work.  As far as I could tell, it's a large volcanic crater filled with mud, the track mostly skirts around the southern rim but still probably ranks at the top of my "tracks with the longest deepest stretch of mud" list (ahead of #2 Stewart Island, or #3 Hihi). 
Anyway Kaitarakihi (-37.12426,175.688596) to the south is higher, at 852m. Much more of a peak, but still just enough room to pitch a small tent at the top.
So it should be more prominent???

I've been up the following:
1 RUAPEHU (HP North Island) 2797 2797 0 3917'24"S 17533'45"E ZN002 9176 9176
2 MOUNT TARANAKI (Egmont) 2518 2308 210 3917'45"S 17403'51"E ZN001 8261 7572
5 NGAURUHOE 2287 977 1310 3909'27"S 17537'57"E ZN005 7503 3205
9 PIRONGIA MOUNTAIN 959 793 166 3759'33"S 17505'54"E ZN009 3146 2602
12 MOUNT MOEHAU 892 755 137 3632'24"S 17524'09"E ZN012 2926 2477
16 TABLE MOUNTAIN 849 716 133 3702'51"S 17539'48"E ZN017 2785 2349
20 MOUNT TARAWERA 1111 664 447 3813'36"S 17630'24"E ZN022 3645 2178
26 MOUNT HOBSON (HP Great Barrier I.) 627 627 0 3611'09"S 17524'48"E ZN026 2057 2057

Also on the South Island list
84 MOUNT ANGLEM (HP Stewart I.) 980 980 0 ZS084 3215 3215
157 THE CORONET 1651 770 881 ZS157 5417 2526

and
BALI, LOMBOK, AND NUSA TENGGARA (the Sundas)
1 Gunung Rinjani Indonesia Lombok 3726 3726 0 0824'36"S 11627'30"E AS018 12224 12224
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 06:41:46 AM by nz_aj »

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2008, 11:27:08 AM »
(Jon)
>>The prominence thing is very interesting... and when we
were trying to find a way to devise this list, using
prominence or spire was one of our ideas.  In the end
we settled on 'access', but I'm so glad you've made that
list, as it will certainly help us find the most 'rewarding' peaks in NZ

        Appreciate you letting me post about
        prominence on your forum, as it is a bit
        off topic. Hopefully the prominence peaks
        can "speak for themselves" as noteworthy
        summits that appeal to the eye, and
        attract climbers in their own right.

        Your guidelines of good access and
        reachable by walkers are solid ones for
        building popular hiking lists.

        The DPS list, mostly in southern
        California, also rules out peaks with roads to
        the top, or large tower installations
        supported by helicopter.


(nz_aj)
>>I don't have my maps handy but checking on the net, heights
for Table Mountain are given as 832m or 846m on various sites.
...
Anyway Kaitarakihi (-37.12426,175.688596) to the south is higher, at 852m.
So it should be more prominent???

        You bet, highest peak in the range gets the big prominence,
        the rest usually end up with half or less.
        I'll pass along your info to the list compiler,
        Jonathan de Ferranti.

        My hunch is that his list needs a double check
        off the best topo maps available for NZ -
        perhaps 1:50,000 scale ? are these online ?

        I did a quick check with Google Earth, which
        has Kaitarakihi higher, but I don't trust
        their elevations much.

>>I've been up the following:

        Thanks for the info, have added first ever
        entry for a NZ "prominence" hiker, though
        of course you knew nothing of prominence
        when hiking these. Feel free to email me
        improvements on the info:

                nz_aj of www.peakbagging.co.nz
        ;)


>>Also on the South Island list

        Boy, that South Island list is a jaw dropper.
        http://peaklist.org/WWlists/oceania/New_Zealand_S_600m.html

        301 peaks with 600 meters prominence
        in an area about half the size of Colorado.
        And Colorado has "only" about 80 comparable
        peaks - by prominence.
        http://peaklist.org/USmaps/coloradosummits.gif

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2008, 06:07:29 PM »
My 260-T12 Thames 1:50 000 topo has Table Mountain at 846m, & Kaitarakihi at 852m.
They're available to buy online....

Mine is a 1991 version.  It says "Date of compilation:1983", "Tracks revised, January 1991". 
It does not show the table mountain track.
It does not show the track from Kaitarakihi to Motutapere to Hihi.
It does not show the first km of the track from Hihi to Broken Hills.
It does not show the track from Hihi to the Billy Goat track.

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2008, 01:05:05 AM »
(nz_aj)
>>My 260-T12 Thames 1:50 000 topo has Table Mountain at 846m,
>>& Kaitarakihi at 852m.  They're available to buy online....

        Thanks, will pass this along to Jonathan (in Scotland).
        I think he uses STRM (satellite) data for
        elevations, my guess is that the maps are better.

>>Mine is a 1991 version.  It says
>>"Date of compilation:1983", "Tracks revised, January 1991".
>>It does not show the table mountain track.
>>It does not show the track from Kaitarakihi to Motutapere to Hihi.

        Sometimes Google Maps/earth will show tracks.
        For Kaitarakihi we have:

        http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-37.124534,175.689068&spn=0.02077,0.032058&t=p&z=15

        which shows some tracks.

        Unfortunately the vegetation is too dense to
        spot the actual track when you toggle to the satellite image,
        and I don't trust the Google overlay info 100%.
        For example, note that with
        Google Earth they have the "Kaitarakihi" label
        and symbols placed 2 KM NE of the correct spot.

        As a side note, I'm very pleased with the Google
        satellite coverage. Very good quality over
        much of the planet, and a zero cost to me -
        such a deal  :)

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2008, 07:04:37 AM »
I couldn't see the Kaitarakihi label you've described on Google Maps.  Maybe it's only visible on Google Earth? 
The tracks shown looked fairly spot on.
From memory the only missing ones in this area are shown in red attached.  I'm a bit fuzzy on the west end of the table mountain track, what's shown isn't quite how I remember it.  Need to find the old topo, don't know where it's gone.  This is the end I started at, it was very easy to find as it went up the ridge just prior to a distinct bend in the main track.  The moss creek hut site end is very meandering, a lot of open gravelly (clay?) areas between small bushy trees & no distinct track in parts.  At least it's easier going than the swamp that is table mountain proper.  I know a couple of women who did this track after me, they started at the Moss Creek hut site end & must of found the track OK.  Somehow they did get very off track on the west end, I'm not sure what map they had (possibly no map knowing them), ended up climbing/sliding down some of the cliffs on the south side probably followed a stream out.

The other little red missing section is a really nice short cut when coming down or going up that way.  When going down the ridge, the track makes a sudden turn left.  Just head over to the right hand side of the ridge & keep going down.  Track was very clear last time I was there (maybe 6 years ago???).  If heading up from the carpark (thinking this may have been moved further down the valley in more recent times???), after crossing the main stream on the way to Pinacles, there is an opening in the bsuhes to the right that you could drive a car though (an obvious opening in other words).  Go through there, cross the stream an bash up the hill heading for the ridge & you'll find the track.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2008, 07:12:47 AM by nz_aj »

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2009, 03:01:35 PM »
A track on Table Mountain??  :o

I don't think so - or at least, not anymore... this bush bash has even been officially called "The World's Worst Tramp". In fact it's SO bad, that you've really just got to go out and do it anyway.
I've done it a couple of times recently - it was that good  ;D  and have even placed a geocache there to lure other idiots to their doom. All the information (and "encouragement" you'll need is at:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=956211a2-018b-4aa4-a687-4d07c2438392

Go on, you know you want to!
'There is always a risk in being alive, and if you are more alive, there is more risk' -Ibsen

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2009, 01:32:48 PM »
I have a map with the table mountain track on it so there was one once

will have to give it a try some day.  maybe just to mt rowe first time then further the following time!!

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2009, 03:23:13 AM »
Yes there is still a track up to Mt Rowe (although it's a bit of a mud-bash even to there), but it stops there. When the article was written many years ago (see my link previously), there was still a track up there. It is no longer there. At all. Trust me on this one! If you want to get to Table Top, you will need to bush bash all the way until you hit the track at the bottom on the far western side again. As you can't see anything around you, there are no landmarks to navigate by, so a GPS (and a sick sense of humour) is strongly recommended.
'There is always a risk in being alive, and if you are more alive, there is more risk' -Ibsen

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2009, 05:26:16 AM »
GPS works ok??  Im just wondering about tree cover...is there enough clearings to get reads etc?  I have a garman vista

i guess follow a compas heading at mt rowe and start bashing?

wondering also which side it would be easiest to navigate from? up the spur on the western end from the track there or from mt rowe?

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2009, 11:51:55 AM »
Yeah, surprisingly no problems with the GPS either time - I've got a Garmin Vista also.
Did it anticlockwise both times (see map). It's OK following the track to Mt Rowe. Then it's a matter of bushbashing your way to the top of the ridge on the western side to get down. There's an old DOC log book here and apparently a track of sorts down now - if you can find your way to it  ;D
Keep going until you hit the track (well, markers anyway...keep a lookout for them) and turn left.
The bushbash is pretty hard-core. It will mess with your head as much as the cuts and bruises - be warned! Let me know if you need some waypoints, because you really wouldn't get lost up there.
'There is always a risk in being alive, and if you are more alive, there is more risk' -Ibsen

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 04:14:44 PM »
Did the pinnacles again in the weekend. got some real wild weather at the top. man did it blow a freight train!!

Would have rather tried table mountain but the company i had determined another assault on the pinnacles was in order.  got up in 2 hours 10 trying to keep up with my super fit 10yo daughters!!

Anyway i did talk to the ranger at the visitors centre re table mountain.  He was "aware there was a cache" on table mountain.  He himself would like to climb up there "to say he has done it"  but was "a little concerned" with the cache and the type of people it was attracting.  He relayed some stories of ill prepared geocaching geeks who obviously usually find caches at the school playground down the road turning up at midday and asking for instructions to get up table mountain with obviously no clue even given the clear description given in the cache page.  He counted on a 10 hour return journey. He did also mention the unique flora etc that would get a hammering if too many people traipsed up there, but id suggest it would be the hiker getting the hammering.

I did take note of the bush near the hut at the pinnacles and if its naything like that its gonna be a real tough tough bash....that stuff is thick, scrubby and nasty!!

A project for the summer.  I think i might attack it from the west and return. Could be easier to navigate toward a perpendicular track target.  just a thought

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2009, 05:07:48 PM »
I hardly think that the 6 geocachers who have been up there since I placed it in February would be classed as a major ecological problem. Although this cache has created a lot of interest, so no doubt he is getting a few enquiries from a few wanna-be's who'd never have the guts (or ability) to do it anyway.
Yes, it is nasty. Yes, really. Make sure you get an early start (if you just can't help youself and have to do it anyway). You were saying something about someone being insane??  ;)
Make sure you've got some waypoints loaded and you should be fine. I would probably still favour going anticlockwise. If you're going the other way you may have trouble finding the "track" up the ridge on the west - it's steep up here and you'd need to come up at the right spot. Apparently there are chains up there, although I didn't see any either time.
The last short bit of the track (if heading westwards) before the trig is completely overgrown, so you may have trouble finding the track from the trig on Rowe if you go eastwards. Still, I'd look forward to the log entry either way  ;D
'There is always a risk in being alive, and if you are more alive, there is more risk' -Ibsen

Re: Wanted - Prominence info from North Island hikers
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2009, 01:35:42 AM »
Agree re your 'ecological problem' sentiment.  All sounded a bit extreme tree hugging to me

I was told by the ranger at the hut a while back that the chains have been removed from the western face.

You know I will do it one day.  I think we both have a bit of the crazy thing going on

hehe, waypoints are already loaded!!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 01:48:30 AM by vinodrinker »